QUESTION: WHAT AND WHERE WAS THE HOLY PRECINCT?

ANSWER: The Holy Precinct or the Sacred Precinct is a term that we apply to the area that was fenced off, from the rest of the camp [Mt. Sinai].  That was where the tabernacle was.  It was the area that people and animals were not allowed to go.  This area was marked out by stone pillars.

QUESTION: WHY HAVE YOU NOT DONE MORE TO BRING FORTH YOUR FINDINGS?

ANSWER:  In Ephesians 1:10 it says: "In the dispensation of the fullness of times he might gather together one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:"  Then in Matthew I believe it is, He says "that when the fullness of the time has come, God sent forth His Son."  God has everything on a time schedule, right.  And the time to show that has not come yet, and so we are showing all we have here so that people who love the Holy Spirit can know and believe.  When they deal with the fact that the blood of Christ fell on the Mercy Seat, that settles that for them.  They are content to wait for the rest until God reveals it..

However, God has given more information on that matter.  When the first National Mark of the Beast Law is passed and made law, which will be contrary to God's Eternal Law, then the Tables of Stone containing God's Law will be put on public display.  And it will be explained to everyone on this earth, that we have a choice, we can keep the Commandments of God and receive the Seal of God in our forehead, or we can keep the commandments of men and receive the Mark of the Beast in our forehead, or we can know better but just go along with these laws until a more convenient time, and receive the Mark in our hand.  It will be made very clear at that point in time.  Everything is ready as soon as God is ready, as soon as these laws are passed.

Folks, many of you have read that God's last message will go with such power and persuasiveness, that even the most determined opponents will have to stand back in silence until it is finished.  Meanwhile, in the back halls of government, they will be formulating at best, laws contrary to the Laws of God, and these will be imported on the human family.  We are also told that at some point before the end comes, all will be commanded to bow down and to worship Satan, who will be coming to this earth looking very much like Christ as described in Revelation, and will claim to be Christ.  You see he is the ultimate antichrist, everyone else has just been his puppets.  So these are the things that face us and for which God will give us the strength necessary to endure when the time comes.

EXPERIENCES IN SAUDI ARABIA:

Saudi Arabia, we had no reason that we were going to get out.  One day they were going to shoot me, and we were in a  place similar to this, except it was solid concrete.  And the people that were interrogating me, were sitting on my end and there was a door over there, with bullet holes, dents in the steel door, and bullet pock marks in the wall, and blood on the floor.

They brought me in from over this way, and asked me a few questions.  One of which was,  "We can have ten men or more, and the Israeli's only have one, and we can have ten tanks or more, and they can have just one, but they will always win. Why do you suppose that is?"  How would you have liked to have been there, and asked that question with a couple of guys with AK-47's with 60 bullet clips?  I did not enjoy that at all, but I remember that God said "take no thought what you shall say," and I said a little silent prayer and the perfect answer came.  And that perfect answer was, " I don't know why God allows that."  Twenty-one mouths fell open, and their eyes bugged out.  They thought they had me.  I thought they had me.  See they were looking for a pretext to kill me.

You remember that is what the Jews did. They were trying to come up with some pretext to crucify Christ.  After they got through interrogating me, they said you can go back to your cell.  So I got up and looked around for these two guards that went with me everywhere I went, to get up and go with me, and they said, "No you can go back by yourself."  So I started out the door I had come in through, they said, "no, you go out that door over there."  I could see the bullet marks and blood, and I didn't have a whole lot of hope.  So I just said a prayer, "Lord you protect my children, and if this is the only way we can be saved, then help us endure it."

And I started walking for the door.  The guys pulled back their levers on their weapons, and somebody shouted "STOP" in Hebrew in Israeli.  Well, the normal reflex is if anybody yells anything at you in that kind of situation, you stop.  You know, it just seems proper, even if you don't understand the language.  I got the impression to just keep walking, and so I did, and they yelled all kinds of Israeli stuff at me, I just kept walking, and I only stopped when they said it in English.  And so they sent the two guards out to about the middle of the enclosure and took me back to my cell. This incident indicates that God can and does at times preserve us in any kind of situation.

A KURDISH ENCOUNTER:

We were going to work on the Tower of Babel back in 1991, and we were a little late getting into the town where we were going to spend the night.  Suddenly, Kurdish terrorist blocked the road, swarming up out of the woods with all kinds of weapons.  They hauled us out up into the mountains for 21 days.  They spoke in Turkish, of which I understand a fair amount, though I didn't let them know that.

All that time they were saying they were going to take us to Iraq and kill us one at a time, and leave us wherever our body would be found, and when the publicity died down, then they would kill another one of us.  The State Department had already written us off as they had undercover people who keep track of what is going on.  They had figured that we were dead, but the God that we serve provided an opportunity for us to get out of that mess, and we did.  God can sustain us in any situation that we find ourselves in, and He can deliver us from it.

One day they were going shoot us, because the Turkish Army had surrounded us, and demanded that they [Kurds] throw down their weapons and release the tourists.  They told the Turkish Commander you go away or we will kill the tourist now.  Well, I've never known a Turkish military unit back down in any situation.  They showed this when they were fighting in Korea where they died to a man before they would do that.  Now here were these Kurds lined up in front of us with guns. One of the prisoners, a tough little fighter, had tears running down his face, for he thought he was going to die in the next few minutes, and I had no reason to disagree with that.

I said a little prayer, "Lord please take care of my family.  You know how to save them.  Forgive me of whatever sins there are left in my life.  In Jesus name and by His blood. Amen."  A text came to mind.  "Be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life."  That my friends, was not the text I wanted to come to mind.  There is another one that I liked a whole lot better, and that is, "The Angel of the Lord encampeth around about them that fear Him and delivereth them."  Suddenly a strange peace came over me, and I was certain that I would be dead in just a matter of seconds.  Don't let anything make you fearful of what is ahead, because we serve a God that can destroy evil, who can deliver us from the fiery furnace, or whatever else they come up with, and can give us eternal life.

QUESTION:  Did you touch the Ark?

ANSWER:   We will show video, when we finally take the stone [10 Commandments] out on display, I'll show video of the Ark of the Covenant, the stone tablets being taken out of it, and all of that  You will see the  Four Angels  who attend the Ark.  And you will be able to look at the blood analysis through the microscope.  You will have to wait to see the answers.  However I will say this, if people were killed now as they were back in those days, I'd be dead.

QUESTION:  The young man that found the Ark first, that you said was slender, and could make it through the very narrow tunnel.  I was wondering, if when he first saw the Ark and fled back in terror, what was it that he saw, did he mention it to you?

ANSWER:  Okay, She is asking about, you see this young man you are asking about did not see the Ark of the Covenant.  He and I had been looking through all these chambers and tunnels and stuff. When the hole was too small for me to get in, I would make it big enough for him to get in, because if there was nothing in there I didn't want to have waste time and effort to make one big enough for me.  He went in and I was fixing to hand him the flashlight so he could shine it around so I could stick my head in and see what looked interesting.  When I started to hand him the flashlight, suddenly he came tearing out of there as fast as he could.  If I hadn't jumped aside, he would have probably dug his way right through me. That was one terrified young man. I believe it was a terror from God, probably because God didn't want him to know what was there.  And it was that, that let me know that the Ark of the Covenant was in that chamber, or at least very near to it.  I never got him to come back.

QUESTION:  HAVE YOU DISCOVERED THE TABLES OF STONE OF THE TEN COMMANDMENTS?

ANSWER:  Yes Sir.  And those will be put on public display right after the Mark of the Beast Law is passed.  There will be three different laws, one will just tell you that you must keep this law that defies God's Law, and the people will get around that.  Then there will be a law if you don't submit to that, you can't buy or sell.  Of course all this is in the book of Revelation, and so after the first one, they will bring death afterwards, so that everybody will have a choice whether they will serve God or whether they will serve man.  And then shortly after that, probation will close and Christ will come, and it is over as far as the righteous being under the gun.

QUESTION:  WHAT DEGREE OF ACCEPTANCE OR REJECTION HAVE YOU FOUND FROM THE BIBLICALLY ORIENTED ARCHAEOLOGIST?

ANSWER:  Acceptance has been very slim.  A few years back there was this cute little lady, that did the commercial for Hanes underwear, and she pulled this way and that, and yanked them around for a bit, and said "They don't say Hanes until I say they say Hanes."  Well a lot of these Archaeologist are of the opinion, that if somebody with no PhD behind his name say that something is thus and so, that this can't be.  But it is my firm belief that most everybody has enough intelligence to recognize when they see ashen cities, and sulfur balls, and chariot parts in the Red Sea, and remains of an ancient boat, I don't need some archaeologist to tell me what I saw, and I don't think you do either.  The Bible says that God passes by the wise and prudent, and reveals Himself to those who are not, (I'm taking some liberties with that quote).  God wants everyone to know that it is not human intelligence at work or clever personal study that has uncovered these findings, but rather God's Spirit moving on the hearts of men and women.

QUESTION:  WHO IS IN CHARGE OF THE TABLES OF STONE:

ANSWER: The Israeli's think that they have full control over the situation.  But I think everybody here knows who it is that is in control.  It is not the Israelis!  When God is ready, they will come out.
 
QUESTION:  WHAT COLOR ARE THE TABLES?

ANSWER:  They are not blue, but you will get to see what color they are. There are so many colors, and everybody has a little different opinion.  You know what I'm saying, we'll let you look at that and decide for yourself.  Now I will say that the original set [in heaven] may have been blue, but God told Moses to make another set of stones like the first.  And so that is the set I've seen and they are not blue.  So I must conclude that most likely the first set wasn't either.

QUESTION: CAN YOU EXPAND ABOUT THE CRACK AND BLOOD ON THE MERCY SEAT?

ANSWER:  I saw the crack down the whole length of the cliff, down the left side of the cross hole.  This confirmed to me "The earth had shook and the rocks had rent," but I had never heard anybody mention that Christ's blood went on the earthly Mercy Seat, never.  And so when I went into the chamber and saw the dried blood on the crack in the ceiling, and on the two edges of the broken cover of the stone container that the Ark of the Covenant was in,  I realized that Christ's blood had gone on that Mercy Seat, and that I was standing right there by it, my mind went on overload and I passed out.  The next time I was together enough to look at my watch, 45 minutes had passed.  We will show all this on video, okay?

QUESTION:  YOU SAID YOU PASSED OUT.  HAVE YOU HAD PROBLEMS WITH THAT?

ANSWER: I don't usually pass out.  It just overloaded my computer.  Who knows, I think it was something God did to protect my sanity.

QUESTION:  DID THE STONE LID COVER THE ARK COMPLETELY?  IF SO, HOW DID IT GET ON THE MERCY SEAT?  WHERE WAS THE BLOOD AND HOW DID YOU COLLECT IT?

ANSWER:  The lid was cracked [open] and the crack allowed the blood to drip on the Mercy Seat.  The Ark was in this thin-walled stone box that it was in the chamber under the crack that came down 20 feet from the cross hole.  It would have been impossible for me to collect the blood originally from the Mercy Seat as there was not room enough for me to get to it. All I had was a pull tab and a film cartridge—a 35mm plastic cartridge.  Collecting this blood had to be done very, very carefully, because there will be skeptics who will doubt. Satan takes every advantage.

QUESTION:  HOW COULD THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL 2,000,000 STRONG TRAVEL FROM SUCCOTH TO THE RED SEA IN JUST 3 DAYS?

ANSWER: How long did it take the Children of Israel to get from Succoth to the Red Sea crossing site?  I have two comments to say about this.  If there is somebody back there keeping score, turn to Genesis 47, verses 6 & 11.  In verse 6 it says that "Pharaoh told Joseph to give his father and brothers the best of the land.  Pharaoh gave them the land of Goshen."  In the 11th verse, it says, "and Joseph according to the command of Pharaoh gave his father and his brethren the best of the land."  He gave them the land of Rameses.

Now in Exodus it says, they left Rameses and encamped in Succoth.  Well, plainly stated and taking this information, the Israelites left the Nile delta and came into Succoth, and it was there that Moses got them all set for the trip.  Now there are two other things that are usually missed, one is that they were not on their way to Canaan.  If you read in Exodus where God spoke with Moses from the burning bush, He said "bring my people here that they might serve me at this mountain."  So they were on their way from Egypt to Mt. Sinai.  So that is a little bit different than what people generally think happened.

The other comment is, that after the plagues, and part of the negotiation by Moses with Pharaoh was that the people be allowed to go three days journey out of the land of Egypt to worship God.  They were expected to come back after they did this worship, because they borrowed from the Egyptians.  Said they plundered the entire borrowing and when the word came back to Pharaoh that the people had fled, his actions were not those of somebody that knew what had happened. He got his army together, his charioteers, his cavalry and went after them.

Now, they had permission to go three days journey, and they had a cloud that gave them shade by day, and warmth by night, and light.  So they traveled both day and night.  On the seventh day of their flight, they reached the Gulf of Aqaba, and that night God divided the sea and they went across.  Now if you read in the New Testament, they were told that the Passover was a seven day event, during which they ate unleavened bread.  So it took them seven days to cross there.  Now in 1963 or 7, Moshe Dyane marched a battalion of infantry from the beach at Nuweiba through to Suez City, which is very near ancient Succoth.  They made the march in six days, and they slept every night.  I assure you that the Israelites were much more motivated than most of Dyan's army.  So you see it was not a logistical problem and very much in the realm of possibility that it happened.

QUESTION: HOW DID YOU DEAL WITH THE WATER PRESSURE AT 200 FT. WHEN DIVING FOR ARTIFACTS?

ANSWER:  When scuba diving to 200 feet you can only stay down for five minutes. What we did when we were working this area over, we would swim at 30 feet because you don't build up any pressure or nitrogen compression at that depth.  So basically you can swim at that depth all day long if you can keep an air supply.  And then when we saw something that looked like it might be an artifact, we would dive down on it quickly, check it out and take pictures if it was something worthwhile.  Even so at the end of the day, my son's nose was bleeding and my left shoulder was hurting. That was an indication that we had very nearly overdone our stay in the water.  We were novices, for we just took a beginners course, and got certified.  Over there it is unbelievable how clear the water was.  The water magnifies things, the first thing I went down to was a chariot wheel or something, so I dove down on it, and when I got there found out it was much smaller that it looked from above.  We had to modify our perspectives accordingly.

We took pictures of a chariot wheel and hub and later showed them to the [Egyptian] Director of Antiquities.  He took one look at it and said that it was an 18th Dynasty Chariot hub.  When he did that I thought, well that is kind of a cavalier attitude, he should at least take some of the coral off of it or something.  But what I didn't know and he did, was that that was the only time in Egyptian history that they used 8-spoke Chariot wheels was during the last part of the 18th Dynasty.  Those chariot hubs were only used at that time.  This is a tell-tale that the Exodus occurred in the last part of the 18th Dynasty.  There is an Egyptian picture that shows an Egyptian in a 8' chariot, a chariot equipped with 8-spoked wheels perusing somebody that was in a 4-spoked chariot.  Anyway we found those 8-spoked wheels and horses' hoofs in there.

On another trip, my sons came along to help. I told him if you see anything unusual at all to let me know so we can photograph it.  We were swimming at 30 feet when my one son told me that they saw this shinny 4-spoked wheel down there.  But they both concluded that it was a beauty rim off a car wheel called a Fager wheel.  I don't know what a Fager wheel is, but I guess it follows the wheels that people buy to put on their vehicle.  So they didn't even tell me about it.  What it was, was a [gold] veneered chariot wheel.  My youngest son, became convinced that it was not a Fager wheel.

QUESTION: HOW DO YOU CONVINCE PEOPLE TO BELIEVE YOUR FINDINGS?

ANSWER: Well, in my opinion God is preparing a group of people.  If God wanted to, He would have no problem convincing everyone on this earth of the fact.   He could come sit on a cloud and let the earth rotate under Him, and in plain English tell the English people, what has happened and what  is happening and nobody would argue with Him.  Twenty-four hours later, there would be nobody on this earth that would be in doubt about that.  But there would be a lot of people that would be meeting God's requirements because they would fear being lost.  God doesn't work like that.  So what I believe He is doing is giving enough evidence here for people to make a decision, and come to Him.

There is enough truth so that honest people who love the truth will know and believe.  They will know the real thing.  God knows what is enough evidence to convince people, and at what point to stop presenting evidence.  If somebody does not want to believe, God could never pile up enough evidence to convince him.  When all of this stuff hits the news, like when we bring the Tables of Stone out, and the blood of Jesus and the analysis and all of that, this will be known everywhere. There will be a lot of people wondering what all of this is about and what is going on.  Because the media just gives the news and does not attach any significance to these kinds of things, I believe that God is going to have people who have already been exposed to this and know all about it so that when that happens, He will have people everywhere that can attach the significance of these things.  I think that is where we are just now.

TOWER OF BABEL:

Now let me show you our last project. We found everything what I think is of major importance. Other folks may have a different opinion about this. Everything that is, except the Tower of Babel. And in the Bible, Genesis 11 talks about the Land of Shinar. It goes on to say "come ... let us build us a city and a tower unless we become scattered over the face of the earth."  So anyway, the point is, it says they journeyed from the East, from the Noah's Ark area they had left.  That puts them somewhere other than down by Babylon, where everybody else says the Tower of Babel was.

And every nook that has ever been looked at down there has Nebuchadnezzar's seal on it.  And so anyway, you are left with the fact that either Nebuchadnezzar copied Nimrod's seal which is not the case.  They came along the rivers and passed out of the mountains into this plain.  There they built the Tower of Babel on the banks of the Euphrates.

Given this information, we went over and got tickets to fly from Istanbul to Abucur.  God had arranged this commercial airline to fly right past the Tower of Babel, where I could get a perfect shot of it right out my window.

So when I got back home, somehow or other we came up with a book that was a mineral radar scan from the shovel of that part of Turkey.  And there sits the Tower of Babel radar penetration right through to the ramps.  Counter clockwise ramps.  You can see them right there.  And God did that. We went out to the site and scraped a little dirt out and looked at some of the bricks.  They are 30" by 30" by 5 ½" and the mortar is a mixture of  tar (slime) and clay.  You remember that the Bible describes the slime they had for mortar, and those bricks had just that holding them together.

I believe the tables of stone will be brought out at the time of the Sunday Law.  The prophet of God commented about what people will say when they are told about this.  When we tell them that there will be a Sunday Law, they will say that is ridiculous because we live in a free country, and have freedom of worship that can never happen in America.  So anyway, it will be after the first Sunday Law is passed when we are going to put this on display.  So the people will see God's Law, what His requirements are, and then they will see the law of the land, which if I'm still privileged to be working and presenting this stuff, I would be truly grateful [Sadly, Ron died August 4, 1999].  Christ said to His Disciples about the Jewish leaders, "For it is in vain that they do worship Me, teaching for doctrine the commandments of men."  Just to make it as clear as a bell to everybody. . .  folks this is the Mark of the Beast here, and this is the Seal of God.   You have to decide which way you are going to vote.

If I could share a personal thought with you.  I tell you, people who don't read the Spirit of Prophecy [Ellen White] don't know what they are missing.  It is horrible what they are doing to themselves.  In one of her visions, and I think it is in Early Writings or Life Sketches, she talks about herself and a large number of other people are on their way to Mt. Zion.  And first she says that we came to a place where there were many, many children, and each of them had a red border around their garments.  This was pointing out that they had been martyrs.  Then she said we came to a building, and Christ said none but the 144,000 may enter this place.  Then she says when we came out of this place where we saw wondrous things to behold, something to that effect, at Mt. Zion.  So anyway, in Zechariah  it says "in that day His feet shall stand on the Mt. of Olives, and it will divide asunder," you know, east, west, north, south "and make a great plain."  Well Sister White says that is where the Holy City New Jerusalem will land.  And even in Zachariah 14, if you read on down it says the same thing but not as clearly.  So anyway, if the earth divides asunder and this area is displaced, you see instead of rolled over, this place, it will be outside Mt. Zion and she also says that the 144,000 will go with Christ to the un-fallen worlds, to help acquaint them with the plan of salvation.  What better plan could they share than Christ's blood on the Mercy Seat.

The tables of stone will be brought out.  Jesus says that.  I believe the rest of it will stay there until eternity.  Because that is the most important event that has happened in eternity, it is where the question of sin has been settled once and for all, like in the book of Nahum 1:9, it says:   "What strange thing do you imagine against the Lord."  He said "behold I will make an utter end and affliction shall not rise."  The second point is that it is right there with Christ's blood on the earthly throne of God, that seals the covenants, ratifies them.

QUESTION:  HOW MANY PEOPLE IN THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT KNOW ABOUT THE ARK?

ANSWER:  So far I have dealt with three different individuals.
 
QUESTION: DID YOU LET THEM KNOW ABOUT FINDING THE BLOOD?

ANSWER:  At this point I have not.  I will at the appropriate time, when I am told.

QUESTION:  WHAT WILL ALL THE JEWS SAY ABOUT THIS WHEN THEY HEAR?

ANSWER:  Some of them already know.  I get invited to Messianic Jewish meetings and have shared this information with them.  I have been to some very surprising places.  We have asked God to help us know where He wants it done, and you would be amazed at how that grabs these people.

QUESTION: DOESN'T ELLEN WHITE SAY SOMETHING ABOUT THE JEWS AND THE LAST DAYS?

ANSWER:  Basically she says that they will participate in the last message, the size and numbers, now I remember the quote, there is a text of Scripture that says, "They will look upon Him whom they have pierced, and will wail."  Well, I have again changed my opinion as to what that might mean, because Jewish people are very vocal individuals.  And when they see the blood on the Mercy Seat or hear about it, they beat themselves on the chest.  I solve that problem when I get up in front of a Jewish group, I say that I know that there is some different views on who crucified Christ and shed His blood. I tell them that I'm the one who caused Him to be crucified [all of us did].

How the Jews will respond when they finally hear the truth about Christ, was graphically illustrated to me when I took the dried blood I had collected [from the Ark of the Covenant] to a lab in Jerusalem to have it analyzed to see whether it was human or animal blood.  At first they did not want to do this, thinking I was crazy, but finally consented to do it. After they tested it, they were the ones who went crazy.  After reconstituting it and letting it sit for 24 hours, they were astonished at what they saw.  The blood was moving and dividing.  It was alive.  They were astonished at the 24 chromosome count instead of 46 which is normal.  They asked me excitedly whose blood that was.  I asked if it was animal or human blood.  They said it was human, but pressed me as to whose blood it was.  I responded that it was the blood of their Messiah.  They went crazy, pulling at their hair, pounding on the lab tables and crying out.  I had not expected such a response.  When they calmed down some, they then asked me who their Messiah was. I told them the blood was that of Jesus of Nazareth whom their ancestors had crucified.  This incident showed me what will happen when all the Jews hear the news about the Ark and the blood of Jesus on the Mercy Seat.

QUESTION:  HOW DID YOU COME TO KNOW WHERE THE ARK WAS?

ANSWER:  Well, that was a very strange situation, the whole thing.   See we found these chariot parts [at the Red Sea crossing], and we came back and took open water training, so we could get some of these things out. Well, I got blistered [and] my feet swelled up so I couldn't get my diving stuff on, and we ended up going back to Jerusalem and waiting out our apex ticket date to fly back.  And I was feeling rained on, I mean you know, I didn't have that much money to come back again soon. The Lord provides just enough.  So I was really feeling bad and I was down there walking, hobbling along on my sore feet, [along] with this guy from [Israeli] Antiquities, and we were talking about Roman artifacts.  And my left hand pointed to this nasty looking hole in this cliff that they were using for a dump, and my mouth said "That's Jeremiah's Grotto, and the Ark of the Covenant is in there."  Well, I mean I was dumbfounded and this guy got all enthusiastic, he said "that is wonderful, we will give you all the help you need, we will provide your meals, we will do your laundry, we will give you a place to sleep."  I mean Jewish people don't do that, and so anyway I kind of stammered out—"well I can't do it now, but I'll come back".  Well I could hardly wait to get home and try and figure out why the Ark of the Covenant would be there.  I didn't have a clue, and nobody that I had ever heard of, mentions that Christ's blood went on the Mercy Seat.  All I'd ever heard was that it went on the one in Heaven.  So anyway, in 2 Kings 25, it tells when Nebuchadnezzar would "cast forts around the city round about," which means he built a siege wall around the city.

I realized they couldn't have taken the Ark of the Covenant out of the city.  Sister White says that "God with mourning" and all of this, "hid it in a cave, where it is undisturbed until this day."  She wrote this.  We know that if God had blinded the Babylonian Army, that it would then be recorded in Scripture, because He says surely the Lord God does nothing except he reveal His secrets to His servants the prophets.  And when he blinded the Assyrian Army, that was written up.  So that way I knew it was in the city, under the city somewhere inside that siege wall.  On the north side there are two gates that couldn't be seen from where the Babylonian siege wall was.  And so we figured that must be right.  I knew that some supernatural force had  moved my arm and talked through me, but didn't know which side, as I got goose bump feelings all up and down my body at the time.

Anyway, once we started digging there, I was looking for the Ark of the Covenant.  Well, we went right down that cliff face, and near these three cutouts in the wall. Obviously where they put the signs in three languages.  And then the third side of this dig, got a little tipsy, and we decided to dig a shaft straight down, and then go along the bottom of the cliff face along the floor of the quarry.  And that is what we did, and so any way, we came out over to the cross hole.  And there was this big split right along the left side of it.  And you know, I just thought okay "the earth shook and the rocks were rent."  Here is the proof of it.

So then I prayed what to do next, and I was impressed to break right through that cliff.  Well I said I'm not that stupid, so we kept digging around and we found this first century Christian Church and some other stuff, and it was getting time to go home, in fact it was the day before.  And my younger son had already asked me this question.  They were taking turns working down with me and being up top to pull up the dirt in buckets.  My younger son, said "Dad why don't you pray about it?"  He was with me on the taxi ride [near Noah's Ark] where we had prayed that the taxi motor die when we were 90º angle from whatever God wanted found, and He did it.  So anyway, he said "well why don't you pray about what to do?"  And he could see I was kind of just wandering around down there.  [I said,] "Well, I have."  He said, "Well what happened?"  [I said,] "I was told to break right through that cliff right there."  I had hit it with the hammer, and it sounded as solid as Gibraltar.  And so he said,  "Well do it."  And I said,   "No way."
 
So we went on for several days more, and then the day before we were ready to go, my older son was down there.  And he is kind of a quiet boy, you know he doesn't say much, but he thinks quite a bit.  And he said "Dad, have you prayed about what to do here?"  And I said "yes," and he said "well what were you impressed to do?"  And I said, "Bust right through that cliff right there."

"Well—" he said "let's do it."  And I said, "No way, that's stupid."  He said, "Well, you have done stupider things than that."  We had handed most of our tools up, pulled them up so we could leave the next morning.  So I hollered up for one of those tool buckets, "throw it back down."  And he said, "You want to break through that wall?" and I said, "Yes."  He said, "Great!"  So he helped us get the stuff down, and here he came shimming down.  So this big crack that came all the way down the cliff face and right past the cross hole, I knew that went through the cliff, so that was [on] one side.  So I took a chisel and started marking over here, back and forth until it cracked.  So I got this big wedge shaped chunk out of it and put it aside.  I asked one of the boys for a flashlight, there was a dark spot right in the middle of this crack.  I shined the flashlight in there, and in there was a chamber.  Boy, I mean I just got goose bumps all over and everything, and I mean we made a way through there real fast.  But that wasn't the chamber that the Ark of the Covenant was in, so we ended up, since we had a Apex ticket, we had to go the next morning.  So we sealed it up and went home.

QUESTION: AS EVENTS WERE TAKING PLACE AT THE ARK SITE, YOU SURELY MUST HAVE BEEN AWARE OF, OR HAD SOME CLUE ABOUT WHAT YOU WERE GOING TO FIND?

ANSWER:  I didn't have a clue.  I knew that was the crucifixion site, I knew that.  But you know the blood going on the Mercy Seat, I had never heard it from any source.  I have mostly read Spirit of Prophecy, because afterwards we had some nice people who have these CD Rom drives and EGW's CD disc, [who] sent us a copy.  There is a statement somewhere, which I don't have at the moment, but which is in the Ark of the Covenant book which has the Spirit of Prophecy quotes.  In there she says, speaking of Christ when he ascended to heaven, that "He took the blood in His hand, and sprinkled it on the Mercy Seat and on His garments, and blessed the people."  This is exactly what the High Priest did figuratively in the earthly services.  So anyway, you can see why people say that it had to have been done in heaven.  Sadly, a lot of the leaders in the church have the same idea.  They have taken the quote to be literal when it is symbolic.

In the earthly service, the Jewish High Priest first of all had to confess his sins and those of his family, and whoever, on a bull, kill it and take the blood into the Most Holy Place and sprinkle it on the Mercy Seat.  So he was ceremonially cleansed, then they cast lots on the goats and took the one that represented Christ as the sin-bearer, killed it and took that blood into the Most Holy place and sprinkled it on the Mercy Seat.  They had to wear a robe that had little bells around the bottom of the robe, so that the people outside could tell that they were still alive and going about the service. They also had a cord tied around their ankle, that reached out into the Holy Place so that if everything wasn't in order, and the High Priest was struck dead by the glory of the Lord, they could pull his body out.

What that tells me, and Sister White says this very gently, if Christ's sacrifice had been imperfect as assessed by  the Father, Jesus would never have come out of that tomb alive.  Just like the High Priest could be struck dead because of any unconfessed sins, Christ really died by the power of sin.  He said,   "My God, . . . .My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me."  But unlike the earthly priests, He came forth from the grave victorious over sin and death.

There are two texts that I think that shed light on this, in Isaiah 26:19, it says, "Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise.  Arise and sing ye that sleep in the dust, for your dew shall be as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out her dead."  Then in Matthew 27:52-53, it says, "When he had cried again He died, and the veil of the Temple was rent in twain from top to bottom, the earth shook and the rocks were rent, and the graves were opened.  And many of the saints that were asleep arose."  It says, "when He arose, they arose and went into the holy city and were seen of many."

So in Isaiah where it says, "together with my dead body shall they arise," that is exactly what happened.  If His sacrifice had it not been acceptable, not only would he not have come out of the grave, but neither would those who were resurrected with Him they have come out of the grave.  And I think it is in Early Writings page 84 or somewhere like that, or in Life Sketches, one or the other, she talks about the people that came out of their graves at that time.  She says that there were people of every generation, from creation until just before Christ died.  And she said that the ones from Noah and Abraham's time, were more noble looking and taller in stature, resembling the angels.  In other words they were bigger and better looking than we are.

I don't know how many of you get our newsletter, but we found the Cave of Macpelah, and the crypts were empty folks.  There were a few fibers in the one that Jacob had been buried in, because he had been mummified.  And there were some wood things that were real old, but no human remains, no teeth, no hair, no bones.  They would certainly have been there if they had not been resurrected, for that grave site was venerated and protected, being very holy to the Jews.  Abraham and Sarah, Isaac and Rebecca, Jacob and Leah were all buried there along with Joseph.  In Revelation John talked about the four and twenty elders.  Can you imagine Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob not being part of the four and twenty elders who were resurrected with Jesus?  I can't!  My wife and I kind of enjoy speculating who the rest might be.

SOMETIMES I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT GOD IS SAYING:

When working to find the Ark of the Covenant, the thought never crossed my mind that I would find it and not bring it out.  I mean that wasn't even the realm of a possibility, but when I realized that I wasn't going to get it out, I sat there and wept, "Lord you promised me that I would get this out, and I had asked for a sign."  But my sign was that I would find it, not that I would get it out.  But I thought they were both the same thing, so I got this very strong impression, thought, that the promise was that you would find it, it will come out when I'm ready.  So I have been very content with that revelation.

I believe there are multitudes of people today in and out of many churches that say they are led by the Holy Spirit.  You know, "God told me this, and God told me that," and they are very precise about what God supposedly told them.  Some of these people are saying that Ron Wyatt is a liar.  Some even say that God told me Ron Wyatt is a liar.  God is allowing all of these people to state their opinion about this, their conclusion.  When the truth will come out [on these discoveries], those who have been honest, people who have been misled by these supposed Spirit filled people are going to say, "Now wait a minute, if you really were led of the Holy Spirit, you would not have said that Ron Wyatt was a liar.  His findings were not a lie."  They will go looking somewhere else for the truth for this time and God will lead them to it.  I think that the delay in bringing these findings out in the open [is] for all to see, is for that purpose-- to allow people make their false statements, so that honest hearted people will be made aware that these folks are not what they claim to be.

A good example of this is how the enemy took advantage of the situation relating to Noah's Ark.  A lot of people ask about the boat on top of Mt. Ararat, when we present to them Noah's Ark.  They ask about the Russian pilot and all of that which is supposed to be fact.  And bless their hearts, all of that is pure fantasy, and tragically the pictures seem to show a large shaped object up there that looks like it is broken in half.

The truth of that is that an artist was hired by Delford Lee to touch-up those pictures.  Some of you folk may know him, as he painted several things for the [SDA] General Conference and colleges and such around. He touched up one of the pictures and put the boat shaped object on top of Mt. Ararat.  He charged $500 to do it.  Satan, since he was not allowed to destroy these things, is slinging all kinds of lies and stuff that would destroy the creditability of these finds, for he well knows the impact of what God is presenting.

QUESTION: WHAT ABOUT THE OLD MEN WHO CLAIMED AS BOYS, THAT THEY CLIMBED INTO THE ARK AND ON TOP OF IT?

ANSWER: Delford Lee spent a great deal of time with Haragopian and later he spent a great deal of time with another guy, whose last name I can't remember.  But both of these men were senile, and he would set there with them and drill information into them that they had seen this.  And then record them saying it.  And if you listen to that recording, and you know Delford Lee, they are using his exact expressions.  It is very obvious that it was done by rote and suggestion.  Haragopian lived over in Van---.  People in Van do not pasture their sheep on Ararat.  There is a big mountain many miles away, and there is a big mountain with snow on the top right north of Van. 

It is amazing how right in our own ranks the followers of God allow themselves to be used of Satan to deceive and lesson the credibility of what God is doing.  The Bible says that those of our own household would be our worst enemies.  This means those who believe like we do, our own church which has become the household of Satan.  I guess in some cases it means actual members of our family.

There was no Russian pilot that saw anything as reported.  In California, a man was trying to start up a rag magazine, one of those like National Inquirer.  And he had a neighbor with a polish name.  What he did was to rearranged the name and made up the whole story.  Later on, he repented of that, and sent out an affidavit to many people saying that he made that whole story up from scratch.  But people that read that story keep on quoting it even they have heard that it was a lie.

QUESTION:   JONATHAN GRAY MENTIONS THE REMAINS OF NOAH'S WIFE THAT WERE DUG UP AND THEN STOLEN.  WHAT DO YOU KNOW ABOUT THAT, AND HAVE YOU SEEN THEM?

ANSWER:  What I know about this is that we found her grave the first trip out. We asked the Lord when we took a taxi to have the motor die on us at 90º angle which happened.

QUESTION:  YOU DIDN'T KNOW WHERE YOU WERE GOING OR WHAT YOU WERE LOOKING FOR [AT THE NOAH'S ARK AREA]?

ANSWER: Well all we knew that out among that rough terrain there was little likelihood that we were going to find anything.  I had seen this boat shaped picture . . .from the aerial survey.  But I didn't know where it was.  I called Rene Noorbergen and everybody that had been up there on the 60's trip, except for one guy, whom I didn't get know how to get a hold of.  They were kind of evasive as to just where they got on horseback, some said that they started at the Iranian border and rode for 6 hours, while others said they got on horseback at the __________? and rode for 6 hours.

So regardless of which of those accounts was true, 6 hours on horseback would put you anywhere out in that area.  We knew that there was no way we could find it, so that is why we prayed that prayer.  The taxi stopped right next to a big pile of rocks.  Back from the first pile of rocks, we found one big anchor stone.  At that time it was amazing to me, but now it's not.

I had been studying anchor stones, what they were used for, and found an inscription of some guy climbing up over an anchor stone, up the boom onto a ship that was was on a piece of Phoenician pottery.  While walking out through there, this guy came up and announced to us that he was our guide.  We were going at a 90º angle and guy wanted us to go another way, but we just kept going.

We had two cameras with us and he kept pestering me to take his picture.  I didn't want to waste my film as I didn't have that much with me, and I didn't figure you could get more there in that part of the world.  Finally after climbing about half-way up this hill, or getting pretty close to the top and all out of breath and everything, I decided to stop and take that guy's picture.  That would give me a chance to catch my breath.  So he walked out in front. He couldn't speak any English and I couldn't speak Turkish, so I pointed for him to get by this rock.  So he goes over and leans up against this rock, and I pulled the camera up and through the eyepiece and focused.  I nearly fell backwards over the hill.  It was the anchor stone.

QUESTION:  DID YOU BRING THE PICTURE WITH YOU?

ANSWER: Yes, we got his picture.  It is laying on the floor you can have a look.  So anyway, then we went back to a village another way instead of going all the way back to the road. Walking out of those mountains was no fun as anybody who has been there will attest to.  For young people it just isn't as difficult for some reason.  Anyway it was no fun.

So instead of walking all the way back out to the road, and remembering about how far between the piles of rock, I walked straight over, and there was Noah's house with these two grave markers with the inscriptions, it was obviously his [Noah's] grave marker and her grave marker.  So, I mean we were awed by what we were finding.  I wrote up a little book, just a real small thing with a picture of Noah's Ark on the cover.  In 1984, I went out with Jim Irwin the Astronaut, and we did a metal detector scan, and I had him on video saying on our two hour [Noah's Ark] tape, I think, saying how evenly spaced these readings were and all that.

A fellow named Marvin picked a copy of that book.  I guess I must have carried some out there to pass out for the other ark hunters.  He wanted to know right where those grave markers were.  I had a bad feeling about it, because in 1979, he had been at a place where we were going to open up.  Anyway, this guy Marvin took us to a place that he thought was the Cave of Macpelah.  He set up a 16 mm camera away from us with a telephoto lens. He planned to scoop the footage of this dig at the cave.  I went over and cut brush and stacked it up right in his line of fire.

Shortly after he went out and got drunk and had a ruptured esophagus   They came running after me because they knew that I was an anesthetist, and said that he is bleeding to death.  So I went over there, and not only was he bleeding to death, but he was stone drunk.  I just told him, "Marvin you are going to have to lay still."  He was bouncing around, I said, "if you want to live, you lay still."  People asked for a bunch of ice.  I didn't have what was needed to treat that problem, so I packed him off in ice from over his chest down to the waist, and had him lay still, and between telling him if he didn't lay still he was a dead man, the cold of the ice sobered him up and the bleeding stopped.

Anyway, on this trip I showed him and others the gravesites, and he is the one that did the dastardly deed of digging them up and stealing all the bones and whatever else was in there, so no one else got the chance to see what was in those graves.

Now I want to close this evening by answering the [previous] question of the gentleman in the back.

QUESTION: QUITE OFTEN I GET ASKED WHAT WAS THE MOST PRECIOUS MOMENT OF ALL IN MY WORK ON THESE THINGS THAT YOU'VE SEEN HERE.

ANSWER:  I was in North Carolina one afternoon or evening [Sept. 1989].  The people had just seen the video and were asking questions. Somebody asked,   "Do you camp out when you are working on these projects?"  I said, "No, I was in the army and I had all the camping out I wanted, and I have no intention of ever doing that again.  We stay at a real cheap hotel North of the Damascus gate on Nabolus Road, it's called the Jerusalem Hotel."  A little later somebody asked, "When are you going back."  I said, "About the middle of September."
 
Well we got everything together, my helpers whom I knew I could trust, and off we went [Sept. 1989 or 1990].  When we walked up to the Jerusalem Hotel there on the front steps sat the doctor that had been in the audience in Hendersonville, North Carolina, uninvited and unwanted.  I realized that I had spent all of this money to get over there, to work on this and I couldn't because this man could not be trusted, otherwise he would have at least asked before he showed up.

Now then, I am very sensitive to make sure that God is with me in everything I do. These things are too important for somebody to try and use their own smarts or cleverness, which we don't possess, to begin with on deciding what to do and when to do these things. I reached the conclusion that God couldn't use me anymore, that one of my mistakes or whatever had been too much, and that I was no longer in His favor, and that He wasn't guiding me anymore, or that man would not have shown up like that.

I said a prayer,  "Lord I am sorry.  I knew to begin with that I was not worthy to do these things.  I thank you for allowing me to do this much. If I can be of any help to the next person, I'll be glad to do it."  I have never been more depressed in my life, and I've been in some pretty depressing situations.  I saw the Ark of the Covenant, the blood on the Mercy Seat and all of that, and then I was no longer useful to God.  I couldn't continue.

We decided to clean out the garden tomb of a bunch of trash and stuff that had accumulated over the years.  If you want to see where Christ was buried, go look in the garden tomb.  That's where the crucifixion site is, approximate 80 feet from the garden tomb.  I won't tell you any more on that until we can show it to you on video.

Anyway, I had a fan that was cooling us off a bit because it was extremely hot.  The fan died.  Misery on top of misery.  Well the doctor had been helping and when the fan died he got his lunch and he scooted back up under some shrubbery off to my right in the shade eating his lunch.  I was sitting flat on the ground trying to fix this fan.  I had nothing to live for people.  Have you ever been in that situation?  Anyway I heard this voice say, "God bless you in what your doing here."  Well, the owner of that voice knew everything that I was doing.  I could tell by the way that he said that. I was shocked because there was not supposed to be anybody there that knew that.  I looked up [a pause as he became filled with emotion, close to tears] and there stood Jesus.  I was not having a dream or a vision because afterward the doctor piped up and said, "Ron, do you suppose we have been talking with an angel?"  He looked exactly like E.G. White had described Him, tall dark hair, dark beard, dark brown eyes, rather light complexioned for having dark hair and eyes, and the kindest expression I have ever seen in [his voice breaks again and is close to tears] my whole life.

I knew it was Jesus, but I'm a researcher and I thought I would ask a few questions and make sure.  So I said,  "Sir, do you live around here?"  He said, " No!"  You see the outfit he was wearing was like of similar to what Arabs still wear today, but not exactly because His garments were hand woven rather than machine woven.  I asked Him if he was a tourist, He said, "No!"   I couldn't think of anything else to ask Him, so I just sat there and looked at Him.  He then said, "I am on my way from South Africa to the New Jerusalem."  Do you remember Jacob's dream.  He was a little ways North of Jerusalem and he saw the ascending and descending, and he said, "Is not this the gate of heaven?"  Jesus was on His [way] from South Africa to the New Jerusalem, and the prophet said that it was the gateway to heaven.

I just sat there.  I did not know what to say.  I was dumbfounded, I was not even sure I was breathing by then.  He looked at me again with that kind expression and said, "God bless you in what you're doing here."  [Again filled with emotion so he had to pause]  That folks was the most precious moment of all of this, and the most precious moment of my entire life.  I hope that an even more precious moment will come for all of us when we can look into that wonderful face [voice breaks filled with tears] and hear Him say,  "Come thou good and faithful servant.  Enter thou into the kingdom of thy Lord."

God has done everything possible to save us folks.  Please don't allow Satan to steal this from you.  Let us bow our heads for a moment.    Dear Heavenly Father, we thank you for what you've done for us.  We thank you that you love us.  We don't know why you did it, but we appreciate it.  We ask you that you will bless everybody here this evening, as only you are wise, powerful and caring enough to do.  Help us to be humble, loyal and truthful servants. Help us to lift up Jesus that others will be drawn to Him and be saved.  Please don't allow anyone to be lost, that you can use us to help them come to you and be saved.  In Jesus name and by His precious blood I pray.  Amen!